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The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. Much appreciated. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. Like x 5 List It's my understanding that the Wavedream only The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. Roon Endpoint 2. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! You must log in or register to reply here. So take it for what it is. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. home system and listening for that end result. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. I could easily live with any of these. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. The other issue is preference. The Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Thanks. have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer those surpass any other digital choice. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. - Roon Endpoint. Complete electrical isolation luxury apartment hotels paris. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Pass Labs INT-60. Powered by Invision Community. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. It is just as important as the DAC itself. I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. Others might disagree but these are my findings. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. Hmm.. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). fake by any means necessary jacket. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. Chord Dave Replacement. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. The video cannot be shown. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. The other stand out dacs that we like are the definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . and build quality is also excellent. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? You already have a very top tier DAC. I believe it comes down to Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. It is a manual step which I forgot. You are using an out of date browser. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. After that you are GOLDEN. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. I don't have that kind of money. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. Did I mention the remote is perfect? personal preference. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. sounds just like the Dave. Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. Never use!! MQA decoding One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. But the differences between great DACs is small. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. UPnP Protocol Thank me laterLoL. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. JavaScript is disabled. You must log in or register to reply here. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. What ice cream do you prefer? With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you.